Curse

cataphract · Apr 15, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Swap with every cast. While it's unnecessary to do so in PvE, it's a good way to simply make yourself better, and if you ever decide to do any sort of PvP, then you will already have the weapon-swapping ethic.

I find it amazing how PvP and weapon-swapping gets mentioned in every single PvE thread. It's as if ability to swap weapons is the only thing one needs for PvP. Not to mention that PvP'ers are most anal about it. Also gives the impression that PvP is of higher value and greater skill than PvE. Load of male bovine droppings, imho.

glacialphoenix · Apr 15, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

I find it amazing how PvP and weapon-swapping gets mentioned in every single PvE thread.

I don't know - as a PvEr who only ABs (which I know some people don't even count as PvP) - I think it's just a statement. Learn how to weaponswap, because it comes in handy, and, well, if the person who asks wants to PvP, it's good to know. If you don't know whether or not the OP wants to PvP as a monk later on, you might as well tell him things that he can do in PvE to prepare him for PvP should he make the choice.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 15, 2009, 01:28 PM // 13:28

PvP comes up in every thread because you don't need strategy or skill to win in PvE. You could bring an empty skillbar and wand crap and still beat the mission. Would you rather us not give you any advice at all?

Snow Bunny · Apr 15, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Also gives the impression that PvP is of higher value and greater skill than PvE..

I mean, well, it is.

Besides that, what's wrong with more active playing of the game? I gave him good advice, that's all.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 15, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

PvP'ers get anal about PvP.

PvE'ers get anal about PvE.

It's all a load of bullshit, as you put it in a nicer fashion, cataphract, because in the end, it's all just 1's and 0's that we all choose to spend our time glued to.

So as not to derail the thread, the reason why weapon-swapping gets brought up in PvE threads is because shit happens. While you don't necessarily have to or need to weapon-swap, it is a technique used in the game to maximize efficiency, whether in PvE or PvP. So it gets brought up. The advice is valid, whether or not a player chooses to take or utilize said advice is completely up to personal preference.

cataphract · Apr 16, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

So as not to derail the thread, the reason why weapon-swapping gets brought up in PvE threads is because shit happens. While you don't necessarily have to or need to weapon-swap, it is a technique used in the game to maximize efficiency, whether in PvE or PvP. So it gets brought up. The advice is valid, whether or not a player chooses to take or utilize said advice is completely up to personal preference.

From what I've seen in PvE a vast majority of people with defensive sets have them just because of e-peen. It's not about reducing damage taken, it's about "my VS is better then yours because mine is q9". I still have nightmares about monks with Amethist Aegises and Torment Shields. They would fire off three completely unneeded spells, people die and monks ping their energy. I've even seen bonders unable to maintain 6 bonds and justifying it with "because it's -4 degen". WTH were they doing bonding with a high set is beyond me. and when you tell them they're not doing a good job they tiger you and leave.

I remain unconvinced that a defensive set in PvE is needed mainly because of all the e-peen flashing that's going on. And the fact that I had no problems vanquishing as monk without any armor on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I mean, well, it is.

Link one Link two Link three Link four Link five

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

PvP comes up in every thread because you don't need strategy or skill to win in PvE.

Just at the top of my head, random order: ranger spike, IWAY, ViMway, (any)spike, links above this qoute, ... Skill and strategy in PvP? LOLWUT

glacialphoenix · Apr 16, 2009, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

From what I've seen in PvE a vast majority of people with defensive sets have them just because of e-peen. It's not about reducing damage taken, it's about "my VS is better then yours because mine is q9". I still have nightmares about monks with Amethist Aegises and Torment Shields. They would fire off three completely unneeded spells, people die and monks ping their energy. I've even seen bonders unable to maintain 6 bonds and justifying it with "because it's -4 degen". WTH were they doing bonding with a high set is beyond me. and when you tell them they're not doing a good job they tiger you and leave.

I remain unconvinced that a defensive set in PvE is needed mainly because of all the e-peen flashing that's going on.

That's an issue with the person playing the monk. It doesn't negate the advice given.

Snow Bunny · Apr 16, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I weapon swap in pve for every cast. I shield swap depending on what I'm facing. If something gives me +16 armor in PvE, that's 16 armor that means I don't need to take more passive defense.

Sure, you can sit on daggers as a monk and win pve, but why wouldn't you maximize efficiency?

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 16, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Just at the top of my head, random order: ranger spike, IWAY, ViMway, (any)spike, links above this qoute, ... Skill and strategy in PvP? LOLWUT

I'm still pretty sure that those builds still require more skill than PvE. Any retard can keep up shadow form while seven other retards can spam their AOE's.

As for shield sets, who cares as long as people don't die? People don't die because of monks bringing defensive sets, people die because the monks/other players are bad.

Daenara · Apr 17, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Arguing over whether PvE>PvP, or the other way around is fairly pointless, and certainly not in line with the help that the OP asked for. Please try and keep your comments on topic, and if you desperately want to start a civilised yet fruitless discussion then do so in another thread.

zelgadissan · Apr 17, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

So leaving PvE vs. PvP out of it - weaponswapping is great for a PvE monk, assuming you're running an actual build and not some perma/cryway shit.

Think about it - you're sitting on a shield set, giving you more armor. Monks that aren't being attacked by AI because they're at a higher armor level = monks that can observe the field and prot correctly, or at the very least redbar. So you swap to your 40/40 to cast your WoH, your 20% enchants staff for your Aegis, and all the while in between you're sitting on a shield and not getting attacked thanks to having 68+ armor instead of the other casters in your party.

Obviously this isn't required for PvE, but as Snow as already eloquently put it, why not maximize efficiency? If you're feeling lazy go get on your warrior and C-space.

Completely on topic: OP's bar of

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mearick

[Word of Healing][Reversal of fortune][patient spirit][aegis][guardian][dismiss condition][remove hex][glyph of lesser energy]

will get you through almost all of PvE. I'd still keep Prot Spirit on there though.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 17, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daenara

Arguing over whether PvE>PvP, or the other way around is fairly pointless, and certainly not in line with the help that the OP asked for. Please try and keep your comments on topic, and if you desperately want to start a civilised yet fruitless discussion then do so in another thread.

A number of us have given plenty of advice, the thing is cataphract brought up the subject of why we refer to PvP so much. The idea is that playing a monk in PvP is alot harder than in PvE so alot of the techniques and skills we use in PvP are brought back to PvE to help people become better players.

cataphract · Apr 17, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

But PvE doesn't need those skills and techniques, nor do people use them to get better. They use them to show off their imaginary leetness and proceed to rebirth mid-battle or some other brainfart idea they just had. They saw on observer and read on forums that having 40/40, defensive and high sets is what pro people do so they went out and got them. Instant pros. And how dare I call a monk bad for running out of energy after three casts or rebirthing mid-battle when it's obvious that he's equipped like a pro and therefore a pro himself.

You guys aren't helping. You're facilitating their delusions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

I'm still pretty sure that those builds still require more skill than PvE. Any retard can keep up shadow form while seven other retards can spam their AOE's.

Any retard can run IWAY and hack away.
Any retard can press a button after hearing "spike!".

There are many, many high-ranked retards out there proving my point day by day.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 17, 2009, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

But PvE doesn't need those skills and techniques, nor do people use them to get better. They use them to show off their imaginary leetness and proceed to rebirth mid-battle or some other brainfart idea they just had. They saw on observer and read on forums that having 40/40, defensive and high sets is what pro people do so they went out and got them. Instant pros. And how dare I call a monk bad for running out of energy after three casts or rebirthing mid-battle when it's obvious that he's equipped like a pro and therefore a pro himself.

You guys aren't helping. You're facilitating their delusions.

Any retard can run IWAY and hack away.
Any retard can press a button after hearing "spike!".

There are many, many high-ranked retards out there proving my point day by day.

It's still harder because while the AI will sit there and get farmed, real players will react (at least try to) when faced with difficult situations.

glacialphoenix · Apr 17, 2009, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

So you swap to your 40/40 to cast your WoH, your 20% enchants staff for your Aegis, and all the while in between you're sitting on a shield and not getting attacked thanks to having 68+ armor instead of the other casters in your party.

PvE/PvP argument aside, I agree with this. Extra health never hurts, either!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

You guys aren't helping. You're facilitating their delusions.

Very well. So let's add a caveat:

KNOWING HOW TO WEAPONSWAP DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A GOOD MONK.
It's a good to-know, but it doesn't automatically guarantee that people will sing your praises: if you're rebirthing mid-battle, you should rethink your learning priorities.

There.

Naphtali · Apr 17, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

From what I've seen in PvE a vast majority of people with defensive sets have them just because of e-peen.

From what I've seen in PvE, a vast majority of people suck. You might have run into many bad players that thought they were cool with flashy equipment, but it's pretty idiotic to think everyone sucks for using defensive sets in PvE. There have been numerous times when I've been saved by a defensive set, be it because of a mistake or not paying attention or whatever, if I had listened to people giving bad advice I wouldn't have survived.,

You seem to have the mentality of a lazy player that wants to do nothing more than the bare minimum. Sure, you don't need to weapon swap in PvE, you shouldn't need it in PvP either, but people generally want to increase their chance of success (except lazy people appearantly), which can you do by combining equipment with skills.
Would you also discourage a frontliner to weapon swap too, since it's not necessary to do it? I mean, it's not like bypassing 20 armor when hitting a warrior or 30 armor when hitting a ranger is something you should strive for. Weapon swapping is also not directly related to PvP, it's related to anyone that want's to optimise efficency, something everyone should do if they want to get better.

I find the fact that you're insinuating that PvE is more complicated than PvP laughable.
You can name any gimmick build that takes no skill to use how much you want, fact still remains that in PvP you'll sooner or later run into something with a brain that can actually think. Something you'll never do in PvE no matter how much you try to find it.

That's it for now, I wish you a pleasant day.